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milanito1985 5 hours ago [-]
Spain is really going in the right direction, I wonder why no one countries inspire from what they are doing
fodmap 5 hours ago [-]
I do agree blocking Palantir is a good move but the Spanish government is doing it for the wrong reason. Spain is storing all sort of data on Chinese servers, including their Intelligence, and Judicial wiretaps.
> Spain is “making a big mistake,” said Bart Groothuis [...] “Spain is now dependent on the country with the largest and most sophisticated offensive espionage program directed against us.”
I highly doubt he's naive enough to believe the "against us" qualifier exempts the operator of the largest and most sophisticated offensive espionage program ever.
vrganj 2 hours ago [-]
The Spanish public overwhelmingly trusts China over the US, so from their perspective, this is not necessarily a bad move.
Obviously, the best move would be to keep the data in Europe instead.
UltraSane 1 hours ago [-]
It makes no sense at all to trust either.
cmxch 3 hours ago [-]
Can’t form a COMINTERN if the US is watching.
mdni007 5 hours ago [-]
As opposed to what? American servers with Isreali backdoors?
petcat 4 hours ago [-]
How about Spanish servers?
I will never understand this helplessness that comes from these European countries. They are choosing to be dependent on foreign powers.
throw1234567891 3 hours ago [-]
You know, we all thought you were allies. But you tricked us well.
wting 44 minutes ago [-]
> Fool me once, shame on... shame on you
— George Bush, 2002
The original saying: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
I think an intellectually honest take is that it's advantageous and prudent to depend on allies and neighbors; leveraging each party's strengths for efficiencies over strategic autonomy. This trade-off is commonly debated with depending on US military hardware in favor of EU military hardware (e.g. France's long standing position for EU strategic autonomy), or vendor lock-in with AWS vs cloud-independent offerings.
The problem is when an ally becomes inconsistent and/or uncooperative; a high stakes version of prisoner's dilemma. At which point do you replace an ally's offerings with more expensive, and often inferior, alternatives? The general populace rarely has the appetite for the short-term economic pain required to achieve long-term strategic independence.
munk-a 4 hours ago [-]
It's expensive to home-grow your own solutions and if you try transitioning too many services at once the cost will be outrageous and you'll probably open other security holes. I am glad Spain is taking this step and I hope they continue this trend - but outright refusing to use any software built abroad requires a massive investment in domestic tech. That investment would likely pay economic dividends but it is a cost that needs to be measured against other investments Spain needs to make and in Spain's case resilience against global warming is especially important.
gregorygoc 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
t-writescode 4 hours ago [-]
> In political science, the term banana republic describes a politically and economically unstable country with an economy dependent upon the export of natural resources.
What natural resource export is Spain’s economy dependent upon?
saghm 4 hours ago [-]
I don't have any insight into what to call it right now, but I thought for several decades after WWII it was still fascist? If anything being a banana republic might not be as as bad as what it used to be
natebc 4 hours ago [-]
i knew it was a little while after WWII (college history was long, long ago!) but didn't realize it was ... 1975-1977!!
I did a whole Wikipedia deep dive on this several months ago. I vaguely remembered hearing how long it took for it to switch back, but the history around it is kind of fascinating; the son of the previous king was groomed to be the successor of Francisco Franco, and I guess he did a good enough job convincing him that he was ideologically in agreement so that the power was passed to him, which he then used to reinstate a republican form of government.
croes 5 hours ago [-]
If the data is encrypted before the upload I see no problem
petcat 4 hours ago [-]
Huawei is the complete data custodian. They are the ones doing the encrypting.
sbayg 52 minutes ago [-]
Maybe Spain has people on the inside (of Huawei.)
tonyhart7 5 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
sequoia 4 hours ago [-]
> I do agree blocking Palantir is a good move
Why? I'm not an expert and have only googled a bit, but I can't figure out what the specific objection to Palantir is.
This section is hilariously hostile towards Palantir.
"Wired wrote that some people think Palantir "maintains a giant, centralized database of information collected from all of its clients", which is untrue."
'some people' is a classic weasel word[0] used to prop up the writer's opinion. This sentence is even funnier because it initially appears to state that Palantir has a centralized DB of clients data, only to finish with "...which is untrue." If the claim is untrue, why lead the section paragraph with it unless you're intending to smear or mislead? If I were to end sentences with "...which is untrue" I could write any number of things on Wikipedia.
It's as though I wrote "A YN user wrote that 'john_strinlai works for the CCP and uses ChatGPT to write all his posts', which is untrue."
I'll keep reading but rhetorical chicanery like this colours my interpretation of the article in general.
EDIT the section goes on: "[We can't pin anything specific on Palantir here]; still it is generally accepted that abuses by governments and data management failures can happen." What does that have to do with Palantir? "data management failures can happen" why is this in the section on "Palantir:Controversy"? This article is not good.
EDIT 2: This section is just comedy gold... 'Palantir "remains open to the critique of potentially being an accessory to acts of deportation, imprisonment, and racism through its contracts".' Open to critiques of potentially being an accessory to "racism?" What is this, the Future Crimes unit from Minority Report? This "future crimes" accusation is especially ironic in relation to the critiques of Palantir itself!
So I haven't read this whole section (it's quite long) but if this is the nature of the "smoking guns" I don't think much of it. Potentially maybe doing something according to 'some people...' this shouldn't hold water for any rational person.
If someone objects to Palantir for working with ICE I understand that, and if that's the nature of Spain's objections they should just say so.
>'Palantir "remains open to the critique of potentially being an accessory to acts of deportation, imprisonment, and racism through its contracts".' Open to critiques of potentially being an accessory to "racism?" What is this, the Future Crimes unit from Minority Report?
No. What that means is, "there's nothing here that prevents these tools from being used in this manner". It's not about what may happen in the future, it's about the current situation, which is that the tools are already produced with the objectionable capacity. It's the same reason speeding is punished, even when no harm follows as a consequence; the act is inherently reckless, regardless of the actual consequences.
solid_fuel 29 minutes ago [-]
> This section is hilariously hostile towards Palantir.
Funny, one comment ago you had no idea what the controversy around Palantir was. How could you possibly know the wikipedia article is hostile? It might be downplaying the controversies around Palantir.
This reaction almost makes it seem like you were being completely disingenuous with your first post, and had already made up your mind about Palantir. Curious.
lokar 1 hours ago [-]
Well, you start with an obviously false claim, I did not continue reading.
I think in general people are a bit distrusting of a tech firm headed by billionaires with deep political ties that sells AI driven surveillance state technology to governments
dgellow 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
pbreit 3 hours ago [-]
That's ridiculous. All he espouses is that all of this stuff is going to happen and so you might was well do it right (with Palantir).
Avicebron 2 hours ago [-]
Without even getting into how shady his actual product is, have you seen that recent he did? He was babbling about alpha, kept babbling about how people were stealing "ontology" (yes i know it's their application layer for agents), I wouldn't trust his business on him alone. I trust even less considering how familiar I am with it.
Manuel_D 3 hours ago [-]
What is this in reference to? Karp has said that US tech companies should be more willing to work with military and intelligence agencies. By that standard, though, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Booz Allen Hamilton, heck even Microsoft are all supporters of "technofascism".
tsukurimashou 3 hours ago [-]
> heck even Microsoft are all supporters of "technofascism"
no one in their right mind is going to argue with that, not sure what your point is
Most of their employees are foreign and dont even fall on the left right poltical spectrum.
Manuel_D 19 minutes ago [-]
This is a company where 88% of employe political contributions went to Democrats. Even if many employees are apolitical, the allegations of fascism are absurd.
throwaway85825 13 minutes ago [-]
Most employees who donate vote left but but most employees may not necessarily vote.
GuinansEyebrows 3 hours ago [-]
> By that standard, though, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Booz Allen Hamilton, heck even Microsoft are all supporters of "technofascism".
certainly! fascism requires industry that cooperates with the state to produce the means of control; these are all companies that do exactly that!
Manuel_D 3 hours ago [-]
By this logic, Ford and Boeing were contributing to technofascism when they were building tanks and planes for the Allies in WWII.
I don't think that most would agree with your understanding of technofascism.
throw1234567891 2 hours ago [-]
Ford propped Nazis in WW2, maybe that’s why you can’t put your finger on it.
Manuel_D 2 hours ago [-]
And Boeing? And General Motors? And the hundreds of other companies that produced armarments?
throw1234567891 2 hours ago [-]
They’ve been paving the path to the main US industry -> weapons. You gotta do what you gotta do to turn the profit. But you guys have also sacrificed a lot of human life.
Manuel_D 1 hours ago [-]
So your answer is yes? The companies like GM, Cadillac, etc. they were buildings tanks to defeat the Nazis were themselves fascists, because producing armarments is an inherently fascist endeavor? Even if the military they're equipping is actively fighting against real fascists?
scotty79 2 hours ago [-]
There were fascist elements in what allies were doing to defeat fascism.
sequoia 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
toofy 2 hours ago [-]
if you take the time to read karp’s manifesto and look into thiels beliefs, then maybe it wouldn’t seem “vibes-based” for you.
an example that may cure you of your “vibes-based” confusion, karp, palantirs ceo, argues clearly for authoritarianism and aggressive surveillance of the general population. he hilariously tries to convince people that the best way to have democracy is to not have it at all. a kind of “to protect your freedom, we’ll take away your freedom” idea that only a certain kind of person falls for.
so yes, people may find it silly to pretend those politics aren’t troubling, particularly when its relating to a government. i’m sure you’re aware that considering political ideas when thinking about how a government is operating isn’t “vibes-based”, it’s integral.
does this one example appease you that it isn’t “vibes based”? if this example doesn’t help you understand, both karp and thiel are not at all shy about their anti-freedom views. they’ve spoken loudly and publicly about them all over the place. if you’re truly curious, there is plenty of info out there you can read.
just be aware, they try to couch their ideas in rhetoric like “the best way to have democracy is to let us take it from you” or “let us surveil you so you can know you have privacy and freedom” kind of nonsense. it’s pretty obvious so i’m sure you won’t be tricked.
Manuel_D 2 hours ago [-]
Can you point to where Karp falls for abolishing democracy? I can't seem to find that part.
sequoia 2 hours ago [-]
"he hilariously tries to convince people that the best way to have democracy is to not have it at all."
I'm sorry but I can't find where he said this. I'm finding it confusing and suspicious that the objections to Palantir & Alex Karp are all so vague and seem to lack the rigour typically required of assertions made here on YN. Usually if you declare something like someone "argues clearly for authoritarianism," you're expected to link to a source of this claim.
People keep telling me here it's so obvious Palantir is bad I shouldn't require any specific evidence and I'm stupid if I don't see it; I'm only reminded of the emperors new cloths.
TheOtherHobbes 1 hours ago [-]
How would you interpret Thiel's “I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible"?
Are you going to suggest that Thiel's role as chairman of Palantir is ceremonial and he's just there to make the tea and arrange the flowers?
Manuel_D 16 minutes ago [-]
> How would you interpret Thiel's “I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible"?
The point is that democracies tend to want to erode liberties. Take the age gating bills floating around as an example.
The solution Thiel proposes is not eliminating democracy. It's building technology that governments cannot easily control. Cryptocurrency is one good example of this.
Manuel_D 2 hours ago [-]
Yes, the objections to Palantir are mostly just partisan politics. Efforts to portray Karp or Thiel as especially dangerous usually involves some taking some quote and applying a massive leap in logic.
Like, Thiel says that it's easier to change the world by inventing new technology than through democracy. And people turn around and try quote this to prop up the claim that he wants to abolish democracy.
ompogUe 1 hours ago [-]
> says that it's easier to change the world by inventing new technology than through democracy
It had a better ring to it to me when Buckminster Fuller said essentially this. He was trying to do it through design rather than control.
Manuel_D 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
bogwog 2 hours ago [-]
For anyone causally scrolling by, know these people are trolls. The founder of Palantir has called technology an "incredible alternative to politics", saying:
> you could unilaterally change the world without having to constantly convince people and beg people and plead with people who are never going to agree with you through technological means
If that's not "technofascism" then idk what is. Trying to spin that as culture war bullshit is disingenuous.
You realize that "changing the world without politics" doesn't mean overthrow of democracy. It means founding businesses to produce goods and services that change the world. Google and Facebook absolutely changed the world, not through politics, but by creating technology.
jakelazaroff 2 hours ago [-]
If that were the case, then why do they spend millions of dollars on lobbying every year? Why does Meta have a "president of global affairs" plucked from Republican political circles? [1]
You realize that lobbying is working within the framework of an electoral democracy? When environmentalists lobby for more stringent emissions rules, they're not overthrowing democracy they're participating in it.
So the answer your question: Meta spends millions on lobbying to influence elected officials, because it knows has to work within the democratic system.
jakelazaroff 2 hours ago [-]
I was specifically responding to this claim:
> Google and Facebook absolutely changed the world, not through politics, but by creating technology.
But it sounds like we're on the same page that they did change the world in part through politics?
Manuel_D 2 hours ago [-]
I'd say they changed the world first and foremost through technology. Their lobbying effort is mostly focused on keeping the government from interfering with their technology efforts.
But back to the main point, quoting someone saying you can change the world though technology instead of democracy and trying to use such a statement as evidence that they want to abolish democracy is nonsense.
onemoresoop 2 hours ago [-]
> founding businesses to produce goods and services that change the world
Why begin with surveilance though?
Manuel_D 2 hours ago [-]
Palantir builds analytics, tools to better use and interpret the data that the government already has. The data collection, the actual surveillance, is done by the government.
Palantir started with analytics because the founders believed the US was making poor use of data, and needed better tools.
onemoresoop 1 hours ago [-]
Prior to Palantir data was being siloed which was a feature if you ask me. Then Palantir found a way to break that and it played out recently eg. ICE hunting people
dgellow 2 hours ago [-]
Yes it does. He and Thiel are open about the fact they don’t believe in democracy and want to get rid of it
Manuel_D 2 hours ago [-]
Again, where does Karp or Thiel say they want to get rid of democracy? They've said that government is bad at solving a lot of problems, sure. But that's a far, far cry from calling for the abolition of democracy.
At this point, can you tell me one non corrupt government?
At least they are doing stuff for the people
bsjaux628 3 hours ago [-]
Define doing. The government is completely block from legislating since the coalition parties will not approve any law, only those that can help their separatist movements. The national budget hasn't been renewed since 2023, affecting new projects.
What we have is a corrupt president and party he'll bent on remaining as long as possible to not face the polls
gonzalohm 3 hours ago [-]
There are two takes here (and I'm impartial because I no longer live in Spain):
- The government lost their trust and should resign.
- The coalition parties are sabotaging the government even when none had the majority (even if together they do).
Either way, fuck Palantir
cryo32 5 hours ago [-]
Looks like we’re doing this in the UK soon too.
Edit: not sure what the downvotes are. Burnham literally said he’ll do it today.
john_strinlai 5 hours ago [-]
indeed, and he has apparently already been walking the walk
>"Burnham did not grant the US tech company any contracts during his nine years as Greater Manchester mayor, and is minded to take the same approach in Downing Street."
NopIdoN 4 hours ago [-]
But how many did he deny?
serial_dev 4 hours ago [-]
I know I’m a conspiracy theorist but I’m looking out for random scandals, random high profile deaths, random infrastructure issues and random large scale accidents.
sucrosesucrose 5 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
archagon 5 hours ago [-]
Which aspect is unsustainable?
peder 5 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
archagon 5 hours ago [-]
Oh? I did not realize there were warlord armies rampaging through the countryside in hope of establishing dynastic Muslim rule. Pat yourself on the head for such an astute historic parallel.
peder 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
overfeed 4 hours ago [-]
> Immigration on Hacker News is like the dumbest topic here
"Dumbest" wouldn't be the word I'd use here, considering the views on immigration are sharply divided by education level. I reckon HN has an overrepresentation of people with (at least) a college degree, relative to the general population.
archagon 4 hours ago [-]
Ah, so these immigrants are indeed part of some sort of caliphate army — just one that was let in without a fight? Yes, that makes sense.
> Immigration on Hacker News is like the dumbest topic here.
Insert "We're All Trying To Find The Guy Who Did This" meme.
peder 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
archagon 4 hours ago [-]
I don't know, but I'm not deranged enough to say that Muslim immigrants in my country are part of an invading force. All the ones I know are quite nice, actually.
Personally, I care far more about the dehumanization of my fellow human beings than how open or closed the borders are.
peder 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
archagon 4 hours ago [-]
As I said above, I care far more about the dehumanization of my fellow human beings than how open or closed the borders are. (It's possible to have sensible and humane immigration policy along any point on that axis.) Slandering immigrants as "invaders" or "parasites" should be met with the harshest possible rebuke, if not outright prosecution for hate speech.
peder 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
sucrosesucrose 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
vrganj 5 hours ago [-]
I think the immigration is what keeps Spain from turning into another Japan or Germany - a stagnant, overly old place stuck in time.
fpoling 5 hours ago [-]
And in Spain most immigrants are from Latin America with close enough culture and language to avoid most integration problems.
ExpertAdvisor01 4 hours ago [-]
I wouldn't say most.
It's around 55–60% of immigrants who come from Spanish-speaking countries.
Also, this uses official numbers, which reflect a larger Spanish speaking share than there is in reality (as people from Spanish-speaking countries have more straightforward visa processes).
So the real percentage is probably much lower (as there are a lot of undocumented migrants. 1.2 million applied for "legalization").
sucrosesucrose 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
indoordin0saur 5 hours ago [-]
Germany has had an immense amount of immigration over the past couple decades.
croes 5 hours ago [-]
Immigrants but not immigration because there aren’t enough resources to help all the people to integrate.
wickedwiesel 4 hours ago [-]
Which is a political choice - not necessarily a resource problem. Germany, if any, would have the resources to help with integration but for decades most people and politicians were living in denial that people from other countries that came to Germany actually wanted to stay and _live_ there or were living in a world were state debt was seen as the devil's spawn.
dgellow 3 hours ago [-]
> were living in a world were state debt was seen as the devil's spawn.
Yes, correct, and thanks for the addition.
To illustrate this quite emotional approach to state finances, the policy of not increasing the the debt was nicknamed "the black zero" ("die Schwarze Null") which got so infamous that the employees of the German Federal Ministry of Finances posed as a "black zero" in this photo: https://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Content/DE/Bilderstre...
Remember, this was at a time when German government bonds were sold with _negative_ interest.
So, Germany was refusing to take on any further debt at the time to invest (i.E. in social capital like workers, better immigration, in infrastructure etc. etc.) and is now trying to rectify this partially, at a time where interest rates are close to 3%. Personally, to me as a non-economist, this feels like a missed opportunity of a lifetime.
dgellow 2 hours ago [-]
Yeah, I like to live in Germany but the leadership is extremely good at missing lifetime opportunities…
5 hours ago [-]
snowpid 5 hours ago [-]
Besides the mentioned comments Spanish speaking immigration is much more welcomed by radical right
AND
Germany had a lot of German speaking immigration from Eastern Europe. There are just no German speaking minorities left in other countries.
starik36 5 hours ago [-]
Just came back from Japan and I found it vibrant and modern.
yitianjian 5 hours ago [-]
If you went to Japan in the 90’s, 00’s or 10’s, you’ll find the issue is that Japan still feels mostly the same. It’s a wonderful country, but post-Japan’s asset bubble and crash there’s been noticeably less change.
sucrosesucrose 4 hours ago [-]
Change for the sake of change is what cancers are.
protonbob 4 hours ago [-]
Why does it need to change?
croes 5 hours ago [-]
Did you visit the countryside?
Japan has an aging problem and a big misogyny problem too.
starik36 3 hours ago [-]
Literally every country has a countryside problem. From US to Russia to Asia to any country in Europe.
kazinator 4 hours ago [-]
Name the country and I will easy find the spots where it is not vibrant and modern, and then say "did you visit those?"
Say, I heard France has great cuisine, but I had street food in Paris and it was meh.
croes 4 hours ago [-]
Doesn’t change facts about Japan‘s problems.
In certain parts they are just less visible.
kazinator 46 minutes ago [-]
Avoiding cherry picking does in fact change facts.
sucrosesucrose 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
mdni007 5 hours ago [-]
Except they don't seem to be an Isreali puppet state
5 hours ago [-]
CommanderData 5 hours ago [-]
[dead]
ks2048 5 hours ago [-]
It seems in current discourse, turning a European country into another USA is a compliment.
croes 5 hours ago [-]
Why do you thinks so?
A country with narcissistic criminal as leader who damages the US science for decades, kills people by dismantling USAID. The raising costs because of his four-week-war against Iran doesn’t help either but damages the economy worldwide.
ks2048 4 hours ago [-]
I didn't say I think so - I said in current discourse - e.g. this site and x.com. The narrative is that Europe is stagnant and US has pulled ahead, at least economically.
I think that can be consistent with Trump destroying the long term future of the country and the planet.
pbreit 3 hours ago [-]
This seems ridiculously short-sighted and backwards.
Avicebron 3 hours ago [-]
Is your assumption that palantir is a good thing?
kazinator 4 hours ago [-]
Politicians and governments like to introduce crap like blacklisting when they have a good excuse to (a target the public agrees with) so that later it's easier for them to use against arbitrary targets.
Dibby053 4 hours ago [-]
They seem to have been granting contracts to manage all kinds of critical data to Huawei's Palantir equivalent lately, so it's probably less about security risks and more about the current source of the bribe money.
If they cared about security they would not outsource this kind of stuff to foreign companies. Spain is not Somalia, why not let Indra do it?
josu 3 hours ago [-]
>Spain is not Somalia, why not let Indra do it?
The data may be safer with the CCP, at least they won't lose it.
broken-kebab 3 hours ago [-]
Dunno, losing it maybe safer from a citizen's POV.
markdown 2 hours ago [-]
Odd take. 99.99999% of citizens will never travel to China, so it matters not that the Chinese govt holds their data.
A local company losing the data screws everyone. Palantir getting the data screws everyone, because while foreign, that data will eventually be fed into global systems like VISA, Mastercard, etc, and affect your travel in numerous countries that will be outsourcing their systems to Palantir.
fluoridation 1 hours ago [-]
You can't predict the future. By your own reasoning, you can't say with any degree of certainty that it will never matter if China has a citizen's data just because that person will never travel there.
psoebasura 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
_ink_ 6 hours ago [-]
I really like what Spain is doing recently. If it weren't for climate change, I'd consider moving there.
Al-Khwarizmi 6 hours ago [-]
Much of Spain is indeed getting very unpleasant in the summer with climate change, but in the north there are still regions that are quite fine at the moment. Where I am, we recently beat the all time temperature record with 35 degrees, but that was a single day. Most days these weeks it isn't going over 25, and I don't think we hit 30 in June except for that single day and maybe one other day.
The problem is that the right is poised to win the next election and will probably undo all the policies you like. They're pretty much against everything that has been done in the last 7 years. I still have some hopes that Sanchez might clinch another term because he's a political survivor, but prospects are not great.
aucisson_masque 2 hours ago [-]
He just put the last nail in the coffin when he gave citizenship to millions of migrants while Spanish has one of the highest unemployment rate of Europe.
markdown 2 hours ago [-]
You're far better off having a million new young workers than having a million undocumented young people hidden in the shadow economy.
They were already there. Flicking a switch and turning them into participants in the economy and society at large is a positive move.
zurdolies 1 hours ago [-]
they were already there? they came in the last 3 years. and who let them in? and what is being done to prevent another illegal million from arriving
zurdolies 1 hours ago [-]
the only ones that were already there are celtiberians, who have been in spain for 3 millenia and are being wiped out in a generation
zurdolies 1 hours ago [-]
are you able to write a sentence without lying?
Al-Khwarizmi 14 minutes ago [-]
I'm not a fan of that, but it's not like the opposition is going to be different in that respect (or like they have been different in the past). It's the companies and elites who are demanding those migrants to keep wages low, so the right will happily provide.
We will get the same migration policy (maybe with some purely aesthetic changes for show), but with the whole kit of fawning over Trump and the US, denying or minimizing climate change, cutting taxes for the wealthy, privatizing public services and so on.
littlecranky67 6 hours ago [-]
Canary Islands are part of Spain and probably unaffected from climate change - we have 19-22°C all year round. If it raises to 25° still pretty livable.
b40d-48b2-979e 6 hours ago [-]
and probably unaffected from climate change
No place is unaffected.
pedrogpimenta 3 hours ago [-]
No, but the island's climate will still be chill.
stronglikedan 3 hours ago [-]
Most places will be unaffected. It'll only affect places where humans are, and we're not even close to filling up the planet
onemoresoop 1 hours ago [-]
Climate change affects places where more people live in the sense that more suffer from it, resources get depleeted fast but the wild temperature fluctuations won’t spare much of the planet in various ways from wet bulb effects, costal erosion, air major currents changing, glaciers melting and so on.
hrldcpr 2 hours ago [-]
> It'll only affect places where humans are
What?
mylies43 1 hours ago [-]
I think he meant to say the "planet" where humans are
hecrogon 5 hours ago [-]
It isn't that simple, Canary Islands already counts with 2.2 million + tourists people and the fresh water is a highly risk resource even when desalinization plants are widespread, the groundwater aquifers are severely compromised.
The mild weather heavily depends on the trade winds. But models predict that due to fact of being so close to Africa heat waves are prone to be more and more frequent compromising the water resources.
Stevvo 4 hours ago [-]
Ok but most of the populated areas of the Canary Islands are a tourist shithole, not somewhere you would want to live.
littlecranky67 3 hours ago [-]
The two capitals (Santa Cruz and Las Palmas) are pretty good spot to live in.
Tourism focuses on the south on both islands. Las Palmas has a beach with a bit touristic activity, but its not drinking tourism like Mallorca or Benidorm. Combined with nice weather all year round overall a greaet place to live. Very walkable cities, you can do without a car. Due to nice weather, you can always go by bike or scooter. Taxis are cheap. Thanks to the tourists, cheap flights all year round, every day, to all major european cities.
But yeah, if you come with kids, factor in private schools. The public system here is broken. As for internet, I pay less than 10€/month for 500Mbit fibre - I couldn't even get that in Germany and if could it would be north of 80€.
Daishiman 6 hours ago [-]
Islands are extremely vulnerable to climate change all over, as they are completely dependent in near-term precipitation for all their water (no rivers, no aquifers).
littlecranky67 6 hours ago [-]
No rivers and no water is reality here for quite a while already. The islands rely a lot on desalination, and there is a big EU-funded project going on to create a desalination plant that not only is used to supply tap water, but the water basin of a new hydroelectric plant [0]. Desalination pretty much solves water issues, IF you have the energy (ideally renewable).
Desalination solves water issues for tap water. Islands may be short on surface area.
I would also never use the word "solve", as this is just for human usage. The ecosystems themselves are irreversibly destroyed.
Xenoamorphous 6 hours ago [-]
The current government has little chance to get re-elected, and the next one will revert most of these decisions.
ncruces 5 hours ago [-]
It could be worse can only take a government so far. Eventually, just preaching to the choir catches up with you.
broken-kebab 3 hours ago [-]
And then you'll have to choose another country after the next elections. Or even before, cause liking politicians from afar somehow much easier than when living in the same country.
stronglikedan 3 hours ago [-]
I imagine there will be a lot of AC retrofitting across Europe in the coming years. Investment opportunity?
munk-a 2 hours ago [-]
Ventless temperature control units are extremely popular there so it's probably not an unwise investment but you're not really ahead of the curve. The construction of most European buildings[1] lends itself poorly to anything that requires knocking a hole in a wall but the systems that can exhaust heat through water lines are usually quite reasonable to set up.
1. Though this is significantly less prevalent in Spain due to a lot of reconstruction happening after the civil war - that isn't to say buildings there are perfect, they just have different problems than the classic German 30cm thick stone wall.
CalRobert 5 hours ago [-]
Galicia is supposed to be nice
breppp 6 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
pier25 5 hours ago [-]
In the CPI Spain is not that far off from countries like France, Italy or the US and better than the global average.
I'm currently living in Mexico and here corruption is a much more serious issue.
breppp 5 hours ago [-]
I am talking about the current government corruption cases, I assume Mexico is worse, but Spain isn't great for Europe either
fcatalan 5 hours ago [-]
The made up cases are so many that they deflect each other and the few real ones. The real scandal is the state of our judicial power.
breppp 5 hours ago [-]
This is pretty common in any country going through a populist phase, they go against the judicial, as is happening in the US
trosdesoca 4 hours ago [-]
what are you even talking about..
embarrassment of a child
trosdesoca 4 hours ago [-]
calla ruc que ets un tros de ruc
sequoia 5 hours ago [-]
"The decision stems directly from growing official concern over the potential misuse of classified information linked to national security."
What are the specific concerns?
badgersnake 4 hours ago [-]
I imagine that’s classified.
sequoia 4 hours ago [-]
People in the comments here are praising the move, so presumably something is public. I've googled but I can't see some specific breach or documented misuse. Is the objection to Palantir strictly political?
tough 3 hours ago [-]
There's been a lot of recent scandals going public against the social democratic party ruling on spain now (PSOE) and its previous dirigents. See Zapatero case. leaked by US agencies recently once Spain put some kind of friction to the Rota south spain bases getting involved on anything vs Iran.
The president P. Sanchez, has been clearly antagonizing Trump in these and other intl issues (even if only visible in spain, as he is not that relevant internationally, etc)
But anyways, this seems like deepstate fighting vs current US admin and current Spain admin, one can infer "Palantir" is basically a gag order away from giving the US govt anything it wants, so as an antagonist. to its current admin, it seems smart to avoid having them as critical providers.
why choose china? Makes no sense, but probably the only other big bro Spain can rely on if the US isn't it anymore
sequoia 3 hours ago [-]
OK so this is not specific to Palantir, but about entrusting sensitive Spanish data to any US based company. If so, that makes sense.
toofy 2 hours ago [-]
well it could be limited to companies who are entirely dedicated to surveillance and massive data collection on citizens like palantir. particularly with that and how ideology based palantir appears to be.
i’m sure they wouldn’t be nearly as concerned about a US company that manufactured screwdrivers or nike or something similar.
TiredOfLife 3 hours ago [-]
As the contracts are going to a chinese company.
The officials making the decisions likely like their bribes wery much.
gervwyk 3 hours ago [-]
I mean.. just take a minute and listen to the CEO. The guy is having a hard time time. Clearly out of touch imo.
yeah, he seems to have the same issue a lot of these guys have. i’m convinced we’re going to find out at some point they’re all on some kind of modern meth type drug that entirely breaks their reality. the similarities between so many of their shifts are too striking.
karl11 3 hours ago [-]
Interview is gold, he is right.
NooneAtAll3 5 hours ago [-]
why not simply make it illegal? why make it a ban specific to one company, are they trying to make their own copy?
dofm 5 hours ago [-]
Palantir is profoundly untrusted in Europe in part because of Alex Karp. He is viewed as a dangerous neo-nationalist (not incorrectly).
Never really sure why Anduril doesn't catch the same grief; they are maybe even creepier. Perhaps Palmer Luckey is just a less visible obvious Bond villain crackpot.
RobertoG 5 hours ago [-]
They didn't ban any company, they just ordered public services and public companies not to use what has been classified as a security risk.
Anybody here think that Palantir is not a security risk for Spain?
NooneAtAll3 60 minutes ago [-]
> Anybody here think that Palantir is not a security risk for Spain?
why is THAT your take and not "WTF WHY ARE THOSE CAMERAS LEGAL IN GENERAL?"
FridgeSeal 4 hours ago [-]
> Anybody here think that Palantir is not a security risk for Spain?
It boggles the mind a bit, but I’ve seen a few comments on here with people defending them to the tune of “what’s the big deal, they just help governments with their data! They're innocent” which is uh, either aggressively naive, or just paid PR behaviour.
somelamer567 1 hours ago [-]
The Spanish government trusting the CCP over Palantir is wild.
The CCP's intolerant, cruel and authoritarian nature is a direct threat to humanity in ways that Peter Thiel could barely imagine in his darkest dreams.
The lack of perspective on show here is astonishing. They are destroying trust with vital Western allies -- trust is gained in drops and lost in buckets -- and Lurch and his dodgy friends are clearly out of their element.
gus_ 5 hours ago [-]
Unfortunately this order will probably be revoked in 2027/2028, we'll see.
munk-a 4 hours ago [-]
It is possible and this in particular is a decision that I'm sure the US will pressure the government to reverse. However, it's misguided to see the entire world through the US political lens where reversing policy decisions is seen as a free win by the voting base. Spain's current democracy is only about fifty years old and extremism is viewed very negatively so outright undoing is generally less common then gradual undermining.
chinathrow 5 hours ago [-]
Look, this is not a bad thing per se, but the US reaction will tell you everything you need to know.
bpodgursky 4 hours ago [-]
> The firm holds a €16.5 million contract signed in 2023 with the Armed Forces Intelligence Center (CIFAS), which is scheduled to expire this upcoming November.
> Military leadership, including the Chiefs of Staff of the Army and Navy, has lobbied Defense Minister Margarita Robles to renew the contract, citing the platform's operational superiority.
Palantir wins contracts because they are better at what they do. If Europe wants to maintain digital sovereignty while not being left behind they need to have a heart-to-heart conversation about how to fix that.
psoebasura 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
3 hours ago [-]
bpodgursky 4 hours ago [-]
Your argument is that the Spanish military is run by the mafia?
trosdesoca 4 hours ago [-]
Well not hard to see. PSOE is a criminal organization and they happen to lead the government and as a consequence the military.
bpodgursky 3 hours ago [-]
You have this backwards then, the chiefs of staff of the military are career roles, they are petitioning the minister of defense, which is a political position (PSOE), to keep Palantir.
emsign 6 hours ago [-]
Great news for Spain. I hope more European countries wake up to what's going on.
Devasta 5 hours ago [-]
Anything short of declaring them a proscribed organization is insufficient.
arcticbison 1 hours ago [-]
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pirataespanyol 6 hours ago [-]
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redsocksfan45 6 hours ago [-]
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abacadaba 4 hours ago [-]
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outside1234 3 hours ago [-]
Sauron identified
Fraterkes 3 hours ago [-]
The world's a scary place, but that's no excuse to make it worse.
4 hours ago [-]
juliusceasar 6 hours ago [-]
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fischermann 6 hours ago [-]
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CurbStomper 6 hours ago [-]
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psoeratas 8 hours ago [-]
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Hugsbox 8 hours ago [-]
What on earth are you even talking about
moron4hire 6 hours ago [-]
There is a certain brand of conservative Republicans who have learned to weaponize antisemitism against Democrats. The general operating theory is that, since the Holocaust, anyone with even Jewish heritage can do no wrong (though I question the sincerity of the view).
Palantir's CEO, Alex Karp, is the son of a Jewish man. I specifically say "son of," because I understand Jewish heritage to be matrilineal and I don't see Alex Karp engaging in any specifically Jewish traditions. But he does also seem to be one of the "Weaponize the Holocaust" Republicans. Thus, you get defenders such as this.
I find it unbelievable that the current chief of Nato (Rutte) is basically an extension of Palantir. He is making sure countries are signing contracts with this extreme company that on pair with the Nazi ideology. They would support mass extermination camps. You probably think this is over exaggerated. But no its not. This company is evil.
CrzyLngPwd 4 hours ago [-]
Pretty sure he would do unspeakable things if it meant getting a pat on the head, and a Good Boy, from the real head of nato.
loeber 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
Laurel1234 4 hours ago [-]
They're already helping run ICE's concentration camps. If Trump asked them for help with extermination camps they'd agree immediately.
omnimus 3 hours ago [-]
“offensively trivializing those who died in the Holocaust” - calling someone nazi or fascist is not trivializing Holocaust. These are clear terms and both Palantir and Karp often publish texts with fascist ideological elements and views. Read something they published like Technological republic. They are not hiding it.
It's not even some radical view.
loeber 3 hours ago [-]
You're moving the goalposts. The original poster wrote that Palantir is on par with the Nazis. (Typos notwithstanding.) That's what I'm responding to.
And yes, it is offensive and trivializing to the millions that were murdered to suggest that that their murderers were on the same moral footing as a modern government software consultancy. (The views that you read into some of their executives are, in fact, not equivalent to actions such as exterminating millions of people.)
Someday, the US will be just a bubble where no other country gives their data to.
We continue this decent into fascism to the point that nobody likes us.. or values us. Is this their idea of Utopia?
protocolture 37 minutes ago [-]
Its what the US wants, and honestly at this point we should just completely cordon off the US from the rest of the world and give it to them.
RIMR 4 hours ago [-]
Unfortunately, yes. The American right has looked at Russia as a model for what they want America to be for some time.
sjsdaiuasgdia 3 hours ago [-]
Alex Karp is clearly off his rocker. This is a good move.
https://www.politico.eu/article/spain-huawei-contract-judici...
> Spain is “making a big mistake,” said Bart Groothuis [...] “Spain is now dependent on the country with the largest and most sophisticated offensive espionage program directed against us.”
I highly doubt he's naive enough to believe the "against us" qualifier exempts the operator of the largest and most sophisticated offensive espionage program ever.
Obviously, the best move would be to keep the data in Europe instead.
I will never understand this helplessness that comes from these European countries. They are choosing to be dependent on foreign powers.
— George Bush, 2002
The original saying: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
I think an intellectually honest take is that it's advantageous and prudent to depend on allies and neighbors; leveraging each party's strengths for efficiencies over strategic autonomy. This trade-off is commonly debated with depending on US military hardware in favor of EU military hardware (e.g. France's long standing position for EU strategic autonomy), or vendor lock-in with AWS vs cloud-independent offerings.
The problem is when an ally becomes inconsistent and/or uncooperative; a high stakes version of prisoner's dilemma. At which point do you replace an ally's offerings with more expensive, and often inferior, alternatives? The general populace rarely has the appetite for the short-term economic pain required to achieve long-term strategic independence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic
What natural resource export is Spain’s economy dependent upon?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_transition_to_democrac...
Why? I'm not an expert and have only googled a bit, but I can't figure out what the specific objection to Palantir is.
"Wired wrote that some people think Palantir "maintains a giant, centralized database of information collected from all of its clients", which is untrue."
'some people' is a classic weasel word[0] used to prop up the writer's opinion. This sentence is even funnier because it initially appears to state that Palantir has a centralized DB of clients data, only to finish with "...which is untrue." If the claim is untrue, why lead the section paragraph with it unless you're intending to smear or mislead? If I were to end sentences with "...which is untrue" I could write any number of things on Wikipedia.
It's as though I wrote "A YN user wrote that 'john_strinlai works for the CCP and uses ChatGPT to write all his posts', which is untrue."
I'll keep reading but rhetorical chicanery like this colours my interpretation of the article in general.
EDIT the section goes on: "[We can't pin anything specific on Palantir here]; still it is generally accepted that abuses by governments and data management failures can happen." What does that have to do with Palantir? "data management failures can happen" why is this in the section on "Palantir:Controversy"? This article is not good.
EDIT 2: This section is just comedy gold... 'Palantir "remains open to the critique of potentially being an accessory to acts of deportation, imprisonment, and racism through its contracts".' Open to critiques of potentially being an accessory to "racism?" What is this, the Future Crimes unit from Minority Report? This "future crimes" accusation is especially ironic in relation to the critiques of Palantir itself!
So I haven't read this whole section (it's quite long) but if this is the nature of the "smoking guns" I don't think much of it. Potentially maybe doing something according to 'some people...' this shouldn't hold water for any rational person.
If someone objects to Palantir for working with ICE I understand that, and if that's the nature of Spain's objections they should just say so.
0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word
No. What that means is, "there's nothing here that prevents these tools from being used in this manner". It's not about what may happen in the future, it's about the current situation, which is that the tools are already produced with the objectionable capacity. It's the same reason speeding is punished, even when no harm follows as a consequence; the act is inherently reckless, regardless of the actual consequences.
Funny, one comment ago you had no idea what the controversy around Palantir was. How could you possibly know the wikipedia article is hostile? It might be downplaying the controversies around Palantir.
This reaction almost makes it seem like you were being completely disingenuous with your first post, and had already made up your mind about Palantir. Curious.
no one in their right mind is going to argue with that, not sure what your point is
certainly! fascism requires industry that cooperates with the state to produce the means of control; these are all companies that do exactly that!
I don't think that most would agree with your understanding of technofascism.
an example that may cure you of your “vibes-based” confusion, karp, palantirs ceo, argues clearly for authoritarianism and aggressive surveillance of the general population. he hilariously tries to convince people that the best way to have democracy is to not have it at all. a kind of “to protect your freedom, we’ll take away your freedom” idea that only a certain kind of person falls for.
so yes, people may find it silly to pretend those politics aren’t troubling, particularly when its relating to a government. i’m sure you’re aware that considering political ideas when thinking about how a government is operating isn’t “vibes-based”, it’s integral.
does this one example appease you that it isn’t “vibes based”? if this example doesn’t help you understand, both karp and thiel are not at all shy about their anti-freedom views. they’ve spoken loudly and publicly about them all over the place. if you’re truly curious, there is plenty of info out there you can read.
just be aware, they try to couch their ideas in rhetoric like “the best way to have democracy is to let us take it from you” or “let us surveil you so you can know you have privacy and freedom” kind of nonsense. it’s pretty obvious so i’m sure you won’t be tricked.
I'm sorry but I can't find where he said this. I'm finding it confusing and suspicious that the objections to Palantir & Alex Karp are all so vague and seem to lack the rigour typically required of assertions made here on YN. Usually if you declare something like someone "argues clearly for authoritarianism," you're expected to link to a source of this claim.
People keep telling me here it's so obvious Palantir is bad I shouldn't require any specific evidence and I'm stupid if I don't see it; I'm only reminded of the emperors new cloths.
Are you going to suggest that Thiel's role as chairman of Palantir is ceremonial and he's just there to make the tea and arrange the flowers?
The point is that democracies tend to want to erode liberties. Take the age gating bills floating around as an example.
The solution Thiel proposes is not eliminating democracy. It's building technology that governments cannot easily control. Cryptocurrency is one good example of this.
Like, Thiel says that it's easier to change the world by inventing new technology than through democracy. And people turn around and try quote this to prop up the claim that he wants to abolish democracy.
It had a better ring to it to me when Buckminster Fuller said essentially this. He was trying to do it through design rather than control.
> you could unilaterally change the world without having to constantly convince people and beg people and plead with people who are never going to agree with you through technological means
If that's not "technofascism" then idk what is. Trying to spin that as culture war bullshit is disingenuous.
See quote at 13m14s in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ95Gmvg_D4
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Kaplan
So the answer your question: Meta spends millions on lobbying to influence elected officials, because it knows has to work within the democratic system.
> Google and Facebook absolutely changed the world, not through politics, but by creating technology.
But it sounds like we're on the same page that they did change the world in part through politics?
But back to the main point, quoting someone saying you can change the world though technology instead of democracy and trying to use such a statement as evidence that they want to abolish democracy is nonsense.
Why begin with surveilance though?
Palantir started with analytics because the founders believed the US was making poor use of data, and needed better tools.
At least they are doing stuff for the people
What we have is a corrupt president and party he'll bent on remaining as long as possible to not face the polls
- The government lost their trust and should resign. - The coalition parties are sabotaging the government even when none had the majority (even if together they do).
Either way, fuck Palantir
Edit: not sure what the downvotes are. Burnham literally said he’ll do it today.
>"Burnham did not grant the US tech company any contracts during his nine years as Greater Manchester mayor, and is minded to take the same approach in Downing Street."
"Dumbest" wouldn't be the word I'd use here, considering the views on immigration are sharply divided by education level. I reckon HN has an overrepresentation of people with (at least) a college degree, relative to the general population.
> Immigration on Hacker News is like the dumbest topic here.
Insert "We're All Trying To Find The Guy Who Did This" meme.
Personally, I care far more about the dehumanization of my fellow human beings than how open or closed the borders are.
It's around 55–60% of immigrants who come from Spanish-speaking countries.
Also, this uses official numbers, which reflect a larger Spanish speaking share than there is in reality (as people from Spanish-speaking countries have more straightforward visa processes).
So the real percentage is probably much lower (as there are a lot of undocumented migrants. 1.2 million applied for "legalization").
You’re not kidding, it’s literally set in the German constitution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_balanced_budget_amendme...
Remember, this was at a time when German government bonds were sold with _negative_ interest. So, Germany was refusing to take on any further debt at the time to invest (i.E. in social capital like workers, better immigration, in infrastructure etc. etc.) and is now trying to rectify this partially, at a time where interest rates are close to 3%. Personally, to me as a non-economist, this feels like a missed opportunity of a lifetime.
Japan has an aging problem and a big misogyny problem too.
Say, I heard France has great cuisine, but I had street food in Paris and it was meh.
A country with narcissistic criminal as leader who damages the US science for decades, kills people by dismantling USAID. The raising costs because of his four-week-war against Iran doesn’t help either but damages the economy worldwide.
I think that can be consistent with Trump destroying the long term future of the country and the planet.
If they cared about security they would not outsource this kind of stuff to foreign companies. Spain is not Somalia, why not let Indra do it?
The data may be safer with the CCP, at least they won't lose it.
A local company losing the data screws everyone. Palantir getting the data screws everyone, because while foreign, that data will eventually be fed into global systems like VISA, Mastercard, etc, and affect your travel in numerous countries that will be outsourcing their systems to Palantir.
The problem is that the right is poised to win the next election and will probably undo all the policies you like. They're pretty much against everything that has been done in the last 7 years. I still have some hopes that Sanchez might clinch another term because he's a political survivor, but prospects are not great.
They were already there. Flicking a switch and turning them into participants in the economy and society at large is a positive move.
We will get the same migration policy (maybe with some purely aesthetic changes for show), but with the whole kit of fawning over Trump and the US, denying or minimizing climate change, cutting taxes for the wealthy, privatizing public services and so on.
What?
But yeah, if you come with kids, factor in private schools. The public system here is broken. As for internet, I pay less than 10€/month for 500Mbit fibre - I couldn't even get that in Germany and if could it would be north of 80€.
[0]: https://renewablesnow.com/news/construction-starts-on-200-mw...
I would also never use the word "solve", as this is just for human usage. The ecosystems themselves are irreversibly destroyed.
1. Though this is significantly less prevalent in Spain due to a lot of reconstruction happening after the civil war - that isn't to say buildings there are perfect, they just have different problems than the classic German 30cm thick stone wall.
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2025
I'm currently living in Mexico and here corruption is a much more serious issue.
embarrassment of a child
What are the specific concerns?
The president P. Sanchez, has been clearly antagonizing Trump in these and other intl issues (even if only visible in spain, as he is not that relevant internationally, etc)
But anyways, this seems like deepstate fighting vs current US admin and current Spain admin, one can infer "Palantir" is basically a gag order away from giving the US govt anything it wants, so as an antagonist. to its current admin, it seems smart to avoid having them as critical providers.
why choose china? Makes no sense, but probably the only other big bro Spain can rely on if the US isn't it anymore
i’m sure they wouldn’t be nearly as concerned about a US company that manufactured screwdrivers or nike or something similar.
https://youtu.be/0A3sGymV6kY
Never really sure why Anduril doesn't catch the same grief; they are maybe even creepier. Perhaps Palmer Luckey is just a less visible obvious Bond villain crackpot.
Anybody here think that Palantir is not a security risk for Spain?
why is THAT your take and not "WTF WHY ARE THOSE CAMERAS LEGAL IN GENERAL?"
It boggles the mind a bit, but I’ve seen a few comments on here with people defending them to the tune of “what’s the big deal, they just help governments with their data! They're innocent” which is uh, either aggressively naive, or just paid PR behaviour.
The CCP's intolerant, cruel and authoritarian nature is a direct threat to humanity in ways that Peter Thiel could barely imagine in his darkest dreams.
The lack of perspective on show here is astonishing. They are destroying trust with vital Western allies -- trust is gained in drops and lost in buckets -- and Lurch and his dodgy friends are clearly out of their element.
> Military leadership, including the Chiefs of Staff of the Army and Navy, has lobbied Defense Minister Margarita Robles to renew the contract, citing the platform's operational superiority.
Palantir wins contracts because they are better at what they do. If Europe wants to maintain digital sovereignty while not being left behind they need to have a heart-to-heart conversation about how to fix that.
Palantir's CEO, Alex Karp, is the son of a Jewish man. I specifically say "son of," because I understand Jewish heritage to be matrilineal and I don't see Alex Karp engaging in any specifically Jewish traditions. But he does also seem to be one of the "Weaponize the Holocaust" Republicans. Thus, you get defenders such as this.
It's not even some radical view.
And yes, it is offensive and trivializing to the millions that were murdered to suggest that that their murderers were on the same moral footing as a modern government software consultancy. (The views that you read into some of their executives are, in fact, not equivalent to actions such as exterminating millions of people.)